That liberal bastion, the Wall Street Journal, released their poll on Walker’s budget plan today and 62% of the country think that Walker is wrong to try and strip collective bargaining rights.
A large majority agree with pay cuts and pension contribution increases, but the unions have already agreed to them anyway.
So a clear mandate here – Walker is wrong – collective bargaining should stay.
The WSJ also polled on what people believe should be cut to balance budgets at the Federal level. Again this shows that Walker is targeting exactly the wrong areas to balance the state budget. Dayton is right , Walker is wrong.
The most popular: placing a surtax on federal income taxes for those who make more than $1 million per year (81 percent said that was acceptable), eliminating spending on earmarks (78 percent), eliminating funding for weapons systems the Defense Department says aren’t necessary (76 percent) and eliminating tax credits for the oil and gas industries (74 percent).
The least popular: cutting funding for Medicaid, the federal government health-care program for the poor (32 percent said that was acceptable); cutting funding for Medicare, the federal government health-care program for seniors (23 percent); cutting funding for K-12 education (22 percent); and cutting funding for Social Security (22 percent).
This is the NBC/WSJ poll. So you pull the verbage above directly from MSNBC without giving credit to MSNBC because that does not fit your WSJ angle you are pulling. Or that this poll has been done every month since 1995. Those items that the people do not want to have cut accompany almost 70% of our budget, and those same people who benefit from those programs have no issue with taxing the snot out of those that have more than you. What happens when we run out of those that have more than you? Guess what, it is now you they will attack. We all know that our President has a hatred of oil, and obviously those that took this survey seem to believe that getting rid of tax credits and such on the oil companies will have no impact what so ever on there life. Companies do not pay taxes, those that consume there products pay those taxes. I love your spin and how easy you make it for me to point it out. I agree, lets do what MN GOV is requesting, wait, we already have when O’Doyle (more to schools, tax on the rich, lifting of OEC)was Gov and it gave us this current mess we are in. Also, doing a little research shows that the unions did not agree to the cuts when they were first proposed after Walker was elected, but that little tidbit always seems to be forgotten, that the Unions could have agreed to this back in late Novemebr, but they thought they could get a better deal. Also, what have those unions done that have signed contracts since the eruption in Madison has occurred? They must have agreed to to pay more for there retirement and benefits, since the unions at the capitol have said they would, right?
Russell,
It is the WSJ/NBC Poll period! MSNBC, being the cable news arm of NBC News would without doubt publish the results of this along with many other news outlets. You seem to enjoy castigating anybody the disagrees with your world view. Are you going through a tough time like everybody else and need a scapegoat? I really can’t believe that people are now equating that public workers are now a part of the privileged class. We all have choices on what vocation or type of employment we pursue. I’ll let you in on a well established fact. The public worker you vilify is also middle class and they pay taxes. I just don’t know how we prospered as a nation when our federal tax rates were higher than they are now. If you don’t believe me go to http://www.taxfoundation.org/…/federalindividualratehistory-20080107.pdf and see for yourself. And those who have higher incomes than the average working person are getting taxed LESS than in past years. I you want to be rich, pour all of your efforts into reaching that goal. You then would be entitled to have a favorable tax burden as a percentage of income. That is what I have told many a friend of mine that I didn’t have a presence of mind to be filthy rich. I guess my loss. If you need to vilify anybody, it should be the elected officials who negotiated these labor contracts with the public workers. In fact both political parties have had representatives at the bargaining table and have worked out deals with the public worker unions. This budget repair bill is a bad bill for all of the residents of Wisconsin and will not fix the budget deficit now or two years from now. I just hope the residents of this state are prepared for more service cutbacks then we have now and the higher fees that are sure to follow.
Russell,
I’m sorry to see that you spent a lot of time working on a response to a liberal. The fact is, you can’t talk facts or even use common sense to reason with them. They are blind so, I gave up trying years ago.
Eric, the writer of this blog purposely left off NBC in his blog post as he knows NBC, owned by GE, who took a bailout from the Government would not hold with his world view of all things Scott Walker is evil. Unfortunately, your link did not work for me, but I do understand that the rich are paying less, as a percentage of there income than when tax rates where sky high. But you also fail to mention that they are paying more of the lions share of total taxes now than at any other time. The dirty little secret, as tax rates go up, the burden on the middle and poor increases. Because you have decided to not work to be rich, that does not give you the right to take more of mine. “The public worker you vilify is also middle class and they pay taxes.” Yes, but those public sector union employees have forgotton who they work for, they work for the taxpayer, not the union. They are represented by the union, but the name on the check is from the taxpayers. yes, they pay taxes on income received from taxpayers. Quite a cycle, take money from taxpayer, pay public employee, public employee pays dues to union who funds campaign for Democrats who agree to union demands. They pay taxes, but obviously not enough to be self sufficient. Without those of us in the private sector, there is no public sector employment, and those in the union picketing. long ago, have forgotten who pays the bills. “I didn’t have a presence of mind to be filthy rich. I guess my loss” actually that would be the loss for the poor, public sector unions and democrats. If you would have been rich, you could have then freely given more of your earned money to those groups you love to make me pay for. “Are you going through a tough time like everybody else and need a scapegoat” nope, things are good. I love my life, I have worked hard for my life. ” will not fix the budget deficit now or two years from now” how do you know this? Let’s pass the bill and see what’s in it! I have written before, we may be going at this the wrong way, but the Unions did have there opportunity to end this before it ever started and did not want to negotiate, and I think I may have a common sense approach. Any new hire, will be on a 401K, employer matched retirement plan. No more defined pension plans effective 04/01/11. Any one hired under a defined pension plan would still see those. As the unions have supposedly agreed to have it’s members pay more into Health and pension, they can start that now. The unions can still bargain for it’s members, but they will have to re do work place rules and regulations, as those have seemed to have lost all common sense. New hires can decide to be a part of the union, if they choose. Obviously, it will take soem time to get through all the unfunded liabilities in regards to pensions and healthcare for retirees, but we can work through it, and save some cash as we move along. Eric, you may not agree with my “worldview”, but I am tired of paying for David’s “worldview.”
Russell,
The issue is not who took the survey. The issue is that the American people support keeping collective bargaining and they support taxing the rich, and they do not support cuts on education and social programs. That’s the mandate today.
Then what was November, a little bump in the road for the progressive movement? Also,if the issue is not who took the survey, why did you lead with WSJ? I know, it is your blog and you are entitled to your own writings. You like to show half truths (the liberal side of things), as do I (the more conservative) So in a very odd way, we complete each other!!!!! LOL, sorry, I thought that was funny. Have you ever read beer stool economics and the affect of taxing the rich, it is a very simple read in how our tax system and today’s charged political climate works? So, the majority of people have no issue with taking more from someone else to pay for there little slice of government pie? Does that not sound wrong to you? Those that demand more of me so they can get what is not theres is not greedy? Come on America, what has happened where self responsibility is now been replaced with government responsibility.
NBC Universal is now owned by Comcast. Yes, GE Capital, a subsidiary of GE did receive TARP money. Does that taint the results of the poll? I did not know you were only taxpayer in western Wisconsin. I guess we all should be saying ‘thank you’ to you for shouldering the tax burden for the rest of us. I don’t like the fact that we now have neighbor against neighbor, friend against friend, and family against family because of one legislative bill. I voted last November too, but I did not vote for the fracturing of the middle class. You are not alone in working hard for a life that is comfortable for you and your family. Also, we don’t have to pass the bill to see what is in it because it is already spelled out what is in and apparently many citizens are opposed to it as is written. Governor Walker picked this fight, so I guess he and the Democrats will have to deal with any of the political fallout as a result of the tumultuous introduction of this bill. Elections do matter and we will have wait and see what happens in the legislative midterms of 2012.
I disagree with most of the postings on this blog, but I am proud to live in a country where we can disagree publically, in print, without fear of imprisonment or death. This is a magnificent country, and, looking at the protests and murders of protesters around the world, I hope we appreciate what we have.
Maybe something we can all agree on. Thank you!
Here’s a link to a variety of polls on unions, Walker and collective bargaining.
November was an election and the Democrats got the ass kick. In fact, 36 percent of the union voters voted for Walker.
Polls are interesting.
Two years ago the TEA Party was trying to impeach Obama the day after he was inaugurated. A year or so ago, the polls were against Obama care…depending on how you read the results or ask the question.
Now the Democrats want to recall the Republicans and the Republicans want to recall the Democrats. Eight years ago the left was painting Hitler mustaches on Bush and two years ago the TEA Party was painting said mustaches on Obama and now the left is painting said mustaches on Walker.
Polls are great for blog talk. However, Walker and the Republicans have control of the political driving wheel. My suggestion for the Democrats is to spend you time organizing for 2012 and don’t waste you time on recalls.
Remember, if Al Gore would have won his home state, no one would have ever heard of Florida.
Dan, do rich people pay a higher, lower or the same percentage rate when it comes to taxes?
Is there such thing as global warming?
Jim Bob,
Sounds like you are worried about the recall efforts?
Sorry if I gave the impression of being worried about a recall. I certainly don’t mean to.
In fact, I am trying to mediate an agreement between the state Republicans and Democrats as we speak. I’m trying to get the Republicans to agree no to recall all the Democrats and trying to get the Democrats to agree not to recall all the Republicans.
If the Democrats did recall Harsdorf, who are they going to get to run against her in the recall election? Maybe the Dems should be working on finding someone to run against Harsdorf in 2012.
These recalls are an excellent example that the conservative and liberal voices had holed up in the dry, lifeless areas of the political fruitcake known as the crushs.
Actually, I think it’s quite humorous to have Democrats telling me that Walker isn’t doing what he said he was going to do. Like they listened to anything he said during the campaign? He’s actually doing pretty much what he said he’d do. Maybe he didn’t go over every piece of DNA in his plan, but he discussed the big picture.
While I’m not about to defend Walker, I’m having a hard time understanding the Liberal love for unions!
As a solidly middle-class citizen, who is also a retired public employee and union member for most of my life (not by choice but because I HAD no choice). I was also a union steward and I can tell that those of you who are heaping love on the unions have never been a member of one.
Either that, or you were one of the incompetent union members who had no business having a job at all, but because of the union you managed to keep yours.
Personally, I’ve seen little benefit to union membership for people who have a work ethic and a committment to put forth their best effort each day.
DM:
I’ve never been in a union, but it certainly has been an interesting shouting match.
Do you think the world would come to an end, if the public workers were stripped of their collective bargaining rights? When you worked for a union, did you think you were over paid and/or had cadillac benefits?
Unions do seem to protect the slow runners and retard the fast runners. It’s interesting that it is pretty much impossible to discuss the pros and cons of unions and what it would be like for the public workers to loses collective bargaining. I’m really not sure what there is left to bargain for that a general cost of living wage wouldn’t cover.
The thing that has always upset me about unions is that employeres are requird to join. The want freedom of choice, but don’t want workers to ave the choice to choose NOT to join.
I also found that they tended to always negotiate contracts that gave better benefits to the longer serving members at the expense of the younger ones.
There was little equity in the contracts and there was always pressure put on employees to vote FOR it, even if they didn’t feel it was in their best interests.
Unions had a place in the 20s and 30s, but those days are gone in MOST industries.
Eric, sorry it took so long to respond to you. Do you know how much work it is shoveling $100 bills into a u-haul to pay my fair share of taxes? (this was sarcasm) Sure could have used some help there buddy, but you were probably “sick” in Madison, right? You must live in a pretty bad neighborhood if this bill is causing neighbors to turn on each other. “already spelled out what is in and apparently many citizens are opposed to it as is written,” your right, I am displeased that it did not completely rip the unions of all bargaining rights. Government unions are the least responsive, most ineffiecient way of handling business. They are a monopoly, and what you are witnessing is a monopoly tumbling. It is tough, but Scott Walker was elected to make tough decisions, of which O’Doyle never did. The easy way out is to tax us more and roll over to the union demands. “You are not alone in working hard for a life that is comfortable for you and your family.” The difference between me working hard for my family and a Government Union member is that they have to take what I have earned from me first, before said Government union member gets paid. I have not forgotten who signs my paycheck, but the public union’s have forgotten who writes the check. With out me(those in private business), the public union member would have no job. Instead of always looking at my wallet and asking what else you can take, how about looking me in the eye and saying thank you for letting me live the American Dream on the back of your hard work. If you can read this, thank a teacher, if it is in english, thank a soldier.
Russell,
Just to clarify, the Dayton plan only increases taxes for the top 5% of income earners – no one else. So I suspect we are not eyeing your wallet. Since the top 1% accumulated 61% of all new wealth created in this country since 2002, I am aiming at that top 1% as the source of new revenue.
This should allow us to not have to fire any state employees, not to slash school funding, not to slash local government aid, and not to gut state health care programs for seniors and the poor.
Should be something everyone can support.
Russell,
Why do you assume I am a public worker? Because I support middle class public workers. I am a private sector worker who works in Minnesota and now have the pleasure of paying taxes to two states. Just doesn’t make much sense that a working class person like myself would be in the corner of those elite people. What I don’t understand why the tea party supporters are the foot soldiers for the moneyed class. Talk about getting punked. You now what, let’s privatize every service that government offers and we the customers could pick the services we like. There would be no negotiating price, but hopefully there would be choice levels of service, so that would make it possible to buy the service that one could afford. Private law enforcement, private schools (unless you choose to home school), private road maintenance and snow plowing plus many other services that could be done by privateers instead of paying taxes to a government whose only goal is to tax the regular working people to oblivion to feed the pig of the public sector workforce. I think we should go all in to assure that if you are going to be a member of the working middle class you just better be prepared to accept what your private employer is going to offer in wages and benefits. While were at it, we should become a right to work state, so that would be the death knell of unions in the private sector. And if I was any self respecting employer I would make sure I was a “at will” employer so I would have the legal right to terminate any employee for good cause, or bad cause, or no cause at all,” and the employee is equally free to quit, strike, or otherwise cease work. As the old saying goes “”He who holds the Gold, makes the rules” would definitely apply here. Let me know if that sound good to Russell or I am I being a little hyperbolic. And yes, if you can read this thank a teacher, but don’t assume that the soldier fought for the the assault of the middle class.
David, Below is bar stool economics. In regards to your assumptions, I would be taxed higher in MN, because rich was lowered from $250K to $150K household incomes. And when they do not get enough revenue the new rich will be $100K.
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.
“Since you are all such good customers”, he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20″. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men – the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his “fair share?”
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, “but he got $10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!”
“That’s true!!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison. “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that,DM, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
Actually,it works more like this.
A CEO, a TEA Party member and a union guy go into a coffee shop and sit down at the table. The waitron brings a plate with a dozen cookies. The CEO leans over and takes 11 of the cookies. As the union guy and TEA Party guy reach for the last cookie at the same time, the CEO says to the TEA Party guy, “Hey look, the union guy is trying to take your cookie.”
Actually, using recent IRS tax data it would be more accurate to say the CEO (the top 5 percent of AGI) took 4 cookies but paid for 8. While the Tea Party guy and the union worker (not mutually exclusive btw – the bottom 95 percent of AGI) only paid for 4 cookies but walked away with 8.
Our tax code is already too progressive which is a real problem when the economy tanks and the taxman has to find someone other than those CEO’s to pay the bill.